Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (reply #978)

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lukevan		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 824 April 11, 2008 6:54 AM	Maybe Yost could have used some of those, you know, intangibles to determine he was out of gas? It cuts both ways. Villy hadn't given up any runs and had no pitch count issues to worry about. Unless intangibles = ESP, I don't think Yost missed anything he should've seen. I agree with hauser about our SP. Besides Sheets, no one pitches beyond the 6th inning with any regularity. Yost wants to squeeze out all he can from his starters considering what happened in last season when his bullpen wore down in the last two months. However, now, we seem to have much better depth in bullpen and Yost shouldn't be worrying about this in a 1-1 game (not that I think he was with Villy yesterday). [Only those who accept Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ]
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olliegjw		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 456 April 11, 2008 8:02 AM	Team Canada wrote: My beef is that Yost let CV give up 5 straight hits. Even if a starter is cruising, if it's not Sheets, you pretty much should have someone at least stretching in the 7th just in case. 5 hits without an out is inexcusable. Regardless of how he was doing before, clearly the wheels have fallen off at that point. Yeah, a check swing blooper, and 2 seeing eye groundballs. This isn't a video game where a new pitcher is ready by hitting the B button. In real life, it takes time to warm up pitchers, and Ned had no need to get someone ready before the home run.
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endaround		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11396 April 11, 2008 8:56 AM	Villaneuva was entering the inning at 78 pitches. Pitchers start to falter at 80 usually. You have to be aware and getting players ready.
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JJHardy7		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1114 April 11, 2008 10:16 AM	Villaneuva was entering the inning at 78 pitches. Pitchers start to falter at 80 usually. You have to be aware and getting players ready. So what happens then if Yost takes CV out after the first hit or two and the relief pitcher gives up runs? Is that still Yost's fault then?
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endaround		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11398 April 11, 2008 10:18 AM	So Yost shouldn't be smart because he might get criticized anyway? It wasn't just a hit, it was a home run. Followed by a double. For three hits in a row with Villanueva missing high.
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joepepsi		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 April 11, 2008 10:34 AM	Team Canada wrote: My beef is that Yost let CV give up 5 straight hits. Even if a starter is cruising, if it's not Sheets, you pretty much should have someone at least stretching in the 7th just in case. 5 hits without an out is inexcusable. Regardless of how he was doing before, clearly the wheels have fallen off at that point. Villy hadn't thrown many pitches after 6, so I appreciate it was a tough decision whether to pull him or put him back out in the 7th. However, he didn't pitch particularly well in the 6th. It was clear to me the Reds' bats were catching on by the 5th inning. His margin of error was so slight and he just wasn't as dominating as he'd been earlier in the game. I can understand wanting CV to get through the 7th, but he should have been on a short leash. Someone should have been warming up in the 6th, ready to go in at anytime. Ned didn't lose this game, but he did get caught unprepared in the 7th. That was inexcusable. "We're the big-big-wowowow-look-how-far-i-can-hit-a-ball-moron-brewers. It's our identity".-- holybannana 7/31//08
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giffted1		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1237 April 11, 2008 10:39 AM	JJHardy7 wrote: Villaneuva was entering the inning at 78 pitches. Pitchers start to falter at 80 usually. You have to be aware and getting players ready. So what happens then if Yost takes CV out after the first hit or two and the relief pitcher gives up runs? Is that still Yost's fault then? Of course it's Yost's fault. And if Yost has someone warming and Villy gets out of the inning, its Yost's fault for unnecessarily warming someone up. Don't you get it? Everything bad that happens to the Brewers is Yost's fault. Shoot, I got mustard on my pants at the game...Yosted again.
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jhart05		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 316 April 11, 2008 10:40 AM	Ennder wrote: I mentioned this in another thread but I don't have a problem with today's game at all. A little bloop single, a HR, a solid hit and then he faced Bako and Harang who he should be able to get out even if he is 'tired'. What he said. P.S. I just heard a short interview with Villy. He said he wasn't tired, the Reds were just hitting the ball. Go Panthers!!!
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jazzytrav		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 442 April 11, 2008 11:54 AM	You have to consider how long it takes to get someone ready in the pen too. As soon as Encarnacion hit his bomb, there was a mad scramble in the pen. That's why, as TC said, you should already have someone up in the 7th. Just because he's not struggling yet doesn't mean you can't get someone up throwing just in case. There's no reason you can't have someone up stretching before the 7th in any game. If the starter struggles, they're that much more ready to go and can probably be warm 1 or 2 batters sooner than if they just got up when the starter started struggling. "I'm into scales right now." -John Coltrane
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TooLiveBrew		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6522 April 11, 2008 12:25 PM BF.net Jedi	Don't you get it? Everything bad that happens to the Brewers is Yost's fault. Hooray constructive discussion. It's just so trivializing and easy to make this kind of 'argument'. You know, most of the thoughtful Yost critics I know here are way more than willing to have an objective discussion about the 'whys', but for whatever reason most times it devolves into this crud. I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly meaning to refer to Brett Favre 3/4/2008: The end of an era "It's been everything I thought it would be, and then some" -- Brett Favre, on his career
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Team Canada		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4692 April 11, 2008 1:18 PM BBQ Lefty	giffted1 wrote: Of course it's Yost's fault. And if Yost has someone warming and Villy gets out of the inning, its Yost's fault for unnecessarily warming someone up. Don't you get it? Everything bad that happens to the Brewers is Yost's fault. Shoot, I got mustard on my pants at the game...Yosted again. That's a ridiculous straw man. No one's going to criticize Yost about having someone warm up. The times our pitchers go less than 7 innings is going to be far more than the number of times they go 8 or 9, so it's simply being prepared for a likely eventuality. this post presented by Kohls It's ok, Cub fans aren't actually real people.
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rotoherb		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 376 April 11, 2008 1:54 PM	The whole "five hits in a row" thing seems way over the top to me. One was a check swing and the last two were ground balls that are outs probably 80% of the time. Heck, Bako's ground ball was so weak that it barely made it out to Hart in right field. Griffey's double play ball was hit harder than either of the last two hits. Villanueva wasn't getting behind in the count and he didn't appear to be laboring so I don't really have a problem with Yost not pulling him because Encarnacion guessed correctly on a first pitch curve ball. If people want to get upset with something about yesterday's game then get upset about not drawing a single walk the whole game and only two in the entire three game series. The Brewers are dead last in the majors in walks at just 17 and two of those were intentional. Yost's managerial decisions will have much less of an effect on the season than the Brewers' ability to get on base.
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joepepsi		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1584 April 11, 2008 2:06 PM	Point taken rotoherb. Braun hasn't drawn a single walk yet. Raise your hand if, like me, you suspect his swing happy attitude is affecting the pitches Prince sees. "We're the big-big-wowowow-look-how-far-i-can-hit-a-ball-moron-brewers. It's our identity".-- holybannana 7/31//08
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Fatter than Joey		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5274 April 11, 2008 2:20 PM Pure Yostian Hatred	Is that still Yost's fault then? It's about maximizing your chances to win not bashing Ned Yost. -- I've noticed and documented a trend that suggests that Ned leaves his starters in WAY too long. People seem hung up on pitch count, when in reality Ned should be watching the pitchers more. Guys like Dave Bush, are going to crap out at 70 pitches sometimes. The crazy thing is -- for example the last game Bush pitched -- Bush was left in to hit for himself, after getting out of a jam in the previous inning -- he gets ran around the bases -- Yost brings him in to pitch the 6th -- he gets clubbed around, getting only one out -- and the BP ends up pitching that inning anyway. If your SP is on the ropes -- more likely than not, the BP is going to have to finish the inning anyway -- they may as well pitch the whole inning. Yost's managerial decisions will have much less of an effect on the season than the Brewers' ability to get on base. So? Italy had less of an effect than Germany in WWII, -- it doesn't mean they didn't need to be addressed. Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's new blog
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giffted1		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1238 April 11, 2008 3:31 PM	That's a ridiculous straw man. No one's going to criticize Yost about having someone warm up. The times our pitchers go less than 7 innings is going to be far more than the number of times they go 8 or 9, so it's simply being prepared for a likely eventuality. I'm almost certain that Ned has been criticized for unnecessarily warming up pitchers in the past. Yes our starters normally don't make it past the 6th inning, but Villanueva had cruised through 6 innings and his pitch count wasn't a problem. Just looking at the IGT, no one was saying that Ned should have someone warming in the pen at the start of the 7th inning. Only after Villy started giving up hits were there people wondering why no one was ready in the pen. Hindsight is the critic's best friend.
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Fatter than Joey		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5278 April 11, 2008 3:37 PM Pure Yostian Hatred	I'm almost certain that Ned has been criticized for unnecessarily warming up pitchers in the past. We really need to get past arguments that take something that might be said in the community here at large, and then pin it on on specific poster. If a specific poster says "Ned screwed up because he did XYZ" -- we shouldn't be saying that some other poster somewhere is going to be mad if Ned did the opposite of XYZ. Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's new blog
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whynotthebrewers		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 172 April 11, 2008 3:45 PM	Team Canada wrote: hat's a ridiculous straw man. No one's going to criticize Yost about having someone warm up. I know you were around last year so if you look back (or remember) there are certainly times that people complained that Yost warmed guys up for no reason. Mainly Wise, who didn't have the best of arms on back to back days. So when we lose, Yost bashers do use both of these and either way they are correct. I really can't believe there is a debate over yesterday. Villy had 70 pitches through 6 and was on a 2 hitter. The argument of having someone warming up is just not there. They got ready after the bomb and that is exactly when they should of. Last Edited By: support April 11, 2008 7:38 PM. Edited 1 time.
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TooLiveBrew		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6533 April 11, 2008 4:00 PM BF.net Jedi	So when we lose, Yost bashers do use both of these and either way they are correct. From now on when you make comments like these, please provide who you're describing. My biggest complaint about being called a 'Yost critic' -- with which I do not inherently disagree -- is that I get lumped in with this supposed huge collective of people who only criticize him, and make sure to set themselves up with an out in either direction. I'm sure I'm regarded as a critic of Yost, but I also have defended him on numerous occasions. I strive to be objective, and statements that lump people all together in one coveniently obnoxious group don't do anything to further actual analysis. I think with almost any controversial Yost decision, you have people who dislike aspect A, others that dislike aspect B, those that hate both A & B, etc. This, imho, leads to comments like, "Yost bashers just want him to fail, so they make sure they cherry-pick anything he does wrong"... which is wholly incorrect imo. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that it's not that bashing Yost is cool, therefore lots of people do it. It's that Yost makes so many questionable/poor/non-most-likely-to-succeed decisions that there has been a lot of Yost bashing. I just think lots of people have the causality flipped around. I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly meaning to refer to Brett Favre 3/4/2008: The end of an era "It's been everything I thought it would be, and then some" -- Brett Favre, on his career
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Fatter than Joey		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5280 April 11, 2008 4:11 PM Pure Yostian Hatred	So when we lose, Yost bashers do use both of these and either way they are correct. Collectively perhaps -- but you couldn't pin it on one poster -- which is what you insist on doing. Villy had 70 pitches through 6 and was on a 2 hitter. The argument of having someone warming up is just not there. They got ready after the bomb and that is exactly when they should of. Villy was in a jam in the 5th, and was likely to bat in the next inning -- I dont think it was the worst thing ever, but Yost should have someone getting ready at the beginning of the 6th, as there was little chance Villy would be pitching in the 7th. Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's new blog
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whynotthebrewers		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 173 April 11, 2008 4:31 PM	Little chance of him pitching the 7th with a two hitter and a low pitch count. If someone warms up with these stats, we will have someone warming up starting the 5th every game. This is exactly what I was talking about when I say Yost can do nothing right. That is a bad example of what should of been done and that should be clear but I guess not. Last Edited By: support April 11, 2008 7:54 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (reply #978)