Villy was in a jam in the 5th, and was likely to bat in the next inning -- I dont think it was the worst thing ever, but Yost should have someone getting ready at the beginning of the 6th, as there was little chance Villy would be pitching in the 7th.If this strategy was implemented our pen would be cashed by the all-star break.
0 Kudo
Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (reply #978)
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 giffted1 |
#41 | |||
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Posts: 1239 April 11, 2008 4:38 PM |
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Fatter than Joey |
#42 | |||
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Posts: 5282 April 11, 2008 4:49 PM Pure Yostian Hatred |
Little chance of him pitching the 7th with a two hitter and a low pitch count.
Yep -- It was a 1-1 game with his spot likely to be up in the 7th. He lucked out of a jam in the 5th, and had walked 3 batters in the last 2 innings. I get the impression you didn't watch the game. Villy was not as effective. This is exactly what I was talking about when I say Yost can do nothing right. When you say "Yost can do nothing right" -- you always take a very specific argument made by one poster, and proceed to apply inaccurate generalizations that may be have been made by an entirely different poster -- but in all likelihood it's a fabrication on your part. That is a bad example of what should of been done and that should be clear but I guess not. I think Yost should have had someone warming earlier -- I realize not everyone holds that POV. I certainly think it is debatable. |
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TooLiveBrew |
#43 | |||
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Posts: 6535 April 11, 2008 4:50 PM BF.net Jedi
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This is exactly what I was talking about when I say Yost can do nothing right.
This is the kind of attitude that detracts from debating Yost -- an 'I told you ya'lls just some haters' approach that seeks to find the instances in which Yost was unfairly blamed. Certainly from both sides there's unfair blame/praise, but to just seek out these instances, and then go, 'See? This is why I'm right' just takes away from objective analysis. A manager can be right & wrong... doesn't have to be one or the other. When you say "Yost can do nothing right" -- you always take a very specific argument made by one poster, and proceed to apply inaccurate generalizations that may be have been made by an entirely different poster Bingo. I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly
meaning to refer to Brett Favre
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Fatter than Joey |
#44 | |||
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Posts: 5284 April 11, 2008 5:01 PM Pure Yostian Hatred |
If this strategy was implemented our pen would be cashed by the all-star break.
Then Yost AND Melvin should be fired. |
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whynotthebrewers |
#45 | |||
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Posts: 174 April 11, 2008 5:01 PM |
Ok as was pointed out before. If Yost does this we will have a pitcher warming up starting the 5th every game if two hits and 70 pitches is the key to getting
someone ready. I watched the game as well and was not looking for the bullpen to come into the game. The 6th was a ground out, ground out, BB and a K so I
don't know how you saw that as reason to get someone ready. I am totatlly baffled and confused as to how this is even an argument.
Last Edited By: support April 11, 2008 7:53 PM.
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Fatter than Joey |
#46 | |||
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Posts: 5285 April 11, 2008 5:07 PM Pure Yostian Hatred |
I am totatlly baffled and confused as to how this is even an argument.
Think past your predetermined conclusions. If Yost does this we will have a pitcher warming up starting the 5th every game if two hits and 70 pitches is the key to getting someone ready Sigh. If every game is a 1-1 tie and the pitchers spot is coming up -- I'm fine with it. Pitchers like Villy start to decline at 75 pitches |
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whynotthebrewers |
#47 | |||
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Posts: 175 April 11, 2008 5:14 PM |
Fatter than Joey wrote: Live outside of the world of hindsight 20-20. It's an easy world to live in and fans who do this always have the right answer. |
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TooLiveBrew |
#48 | |||
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Posts: 6538 April 11, 2008 5:28 PM BF.net Jedi
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Seriously, give this stuff up. FtJ is very forward about his concerns re. Yost, and the vast majority of the time they are not reactionary.
I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly
meaning to refer to Brett Favre
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GenoSeligPrieb |
#49 | |||
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Posts: 2724 April 11, 2008 7:33 PM Chief Cynic |
"Ned should be watching the pitchers more. Guys like Dave Bush, are going to crap out at 70 pitches sometimes. The crazy thing is -- for example the
last game Bush pitched -- Bush was left in to hit for himself, after getting out of a jam in the previous inning -- he gets ran around the bases -- Yost brings
him in to pitch the 6th -- he gets clubbed around, getting only one out -- and the BP ends up pitching that inning anyway. If your SP is on the ropes -- more
likely than not, the BP is going to have to finish the inning anyway -- they may as well pitch the whole inning. "
VERY well said, FTJ. I may be willing to nominate yesterday's loss as Ned's FIRST in a series of game-costing managerial blunders of the season. I'm amazed at how damned often Ned trots out the SP to bat for himself, when he's on the ropes, late enough in the game. However....as long as Doug keeps giving Ned starting pitchers who keep crapping out after 5 innings, we may as well have 8 men in the batting order, Counsell doing his Cesar Tovar/Bert Campaneris impersonation playing every defensive position, and 11 men in the pen. I REALLY didn't want Ned to be covertly retained by Doug, this past winter. But I'm just sick and tired of our SPs (aside from Benny of course) not being able to last into the 7th and beyond. Perhaps that's why Shousie is a luxury, inthat, as a LOOGY, he takes up 1 roster spot, but can't be depended on for multiple innings in relief....'cause apparently we'll need pretty much every reliever to put in 80 innings-plus this season.
"Well, if this crook's a Brewers
fan, his ass has gotta be from Wisconsin. " Or maybe Chicago...
Last Edited By: GenoSeligPrieb April 11, 2008 7:40 PM.
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TooLiveBrew |
#50 | |||
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Posts: 6546 April 11, 2008 9:15 PM BF.net Jedi
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(aside from Benny [and Gallardo] of course)
Don't forget Yovani! And just for the record... when he's on the ropes, late enough in the game. to me, this doesn't also mean 'has previously shown signs of struggling in a game.' I think at this point, we have a pretty large quantity of Bush starts to see that he tends to surrender more runs when he's thrown 75+ pitches (not too atypical for pitchers). Now I know that doesn't sound like many, but he's been consistent in contributing solid performance over the first 75 or so, iirc. Since he hasn't walked many guys in his career, that 75 can be 5 solid innings. There will be some times this season when the Crew will have a 6+ run lead after 5, and to have Bush to eat up 5-6 innings each start is valuable in its own way. I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly
meaning to refer to Brett Favre
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GenoSeligPrieb |
#51 | |||
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Posts: 2728 April 11, 2008 10:04 PM Chief Cynic |
"Don't forget Yovani! "
He hasn't been able to make one damned pitch yet! "Bush...tends to surrender more runs when he's thrown 75+ pitches " Then he can be part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. Dave Bush is a BAD starting pitcher. If he's out there, our pen will be taxed more than a resident of Cook County. In Bush starts, our relievers will be required to turn in 3, 4, 5 innings, burning them out for the next game. But since Dave Bush seems capable of going 3 or even godforbid 4 innings without the house caving in, then he may be an ideal 3-inning middle man a few times a week whenever a starter craps out early. Just don't start Bush again!
"Well, if this crook's a Brewers
fan, his ass has gotta be from Wisconsin. " Or maybe Chicago... |
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kramnoj |
#52 | |||
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Posts: 72 April 12, 2008 8:21 AM |
I agree that having a guy warming up pro-actively sounds like a good idea, but I wonder how many things we don't know. As silly as it may sound, confidence
is important, and I don't think having a replacement pitcher ready for a pitcher who has done well is going to help the starter get through the last part
of their outing. If you have so little confidence in the pitcher's ability to go deep, why even let them have the opportunity to give up a run? I've
watched Brewer's games where I was confident that the struggling starter was going to blow the game, only to have Yost's confidence in the pitcher pay
off.
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Backupcatchers |
#53 | |||
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Posts: 833 April 12, 2008 9:36 AM |
I'm fine with it. Pitchers like Villy start to decline at 75 pitches
Hes' pitched a total of 179.1 innings and 14 starts in three years. It's a bit early to know this isn't it? The best indicator we have with regrad to his starting was in 06 when he had 6 starts and 4 relief appearances and 53.2 innings. Either he had some pretty long releif outings that year or he must have gone into the seventh in several of his starts that year. Ned has three young pitchers on his staff. It's not unheard of for managers to have to learn the limits of guys like that. Frank Kremblas certainly has the you don't know until you try philosophy and he's been touted as a better managerial option than Ned by many on this site. |
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TooLiveBrew |
#54 | |||
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Posts: 6552 April 12, 2008 1:30 PM BF.net Jedi
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I've watched Brewer's games where I was confident that the struggling starter was going to blow the game, only to
have Yost's confidence in the pitcher pay off.
But it's about playing the odds, so sometimes Yost is right, and sometimes he's wrong. My problem is that Ned has shown a serious tendency to not play the strongest precentage(s). Bush, for example, we know tends to do very well earlier on. There's nothing wrong with that. But hoping that he'll not repeat his most common results after 75 pitches is just being optimistic for optimism's sake. Even when Yost knows what the best play is, he still hopes things will turn out the way he wants. I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly
meaning to refer to Brett Favre
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brewtown82 |
Did Yost want to win this game? | #55 | ||
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Posts: 116 April 15, 2008 8:34 PM |
So let me get this straight...your hottest hitter is out with a bum shoulder, you have Bush (cough) on the mound, and you choose today to give Braun the night
off, a game after he had an RBI against the mets? Really?
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lcbj68c |
#56 | |||
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Posts: 473 April 15, 2008 8:44 PM |
Even when Yost knows what the best play is, he still hopes things will turn out the way he wants.
The only problem with that is you have to manage for 162 games, not just tonight. Without another off day till next week, you have to manage your bullpen for the week and sometimes that involves "hoping" a guy can get you through so that the rest of the week can be spent puting guys in the right positions instead of having a domino effect all over not trusting a guy for one or two more innings. |
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orca1963 |
Yost Bashing | #57 | ||
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Posts: 23 April 15, 2008 9:09 PM |
There has been a lot of Yost bashing this year (by myself as well, especially in the heat of the moment). Let's say those calling for him to be gone got
their wish. Who do we replace him with? How about two choices - one that is actually available and then name your dream manager.
Available - I would keep Yost as I have no clue as to anyone worth anything that is available. Dream Manager - Tony Larussa
The first glass is for myself, the second for my friends, the third for good humor, and the fourth for my enemies.
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tristarscoop |
#58 | |||
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Posts: 238 April 15, 2008 9:19 PM |
As a whole, it's not a problem with Ned overall, so I don't know that it's necessarily about replacing Ned. The decision-making about the pitching
is the problem - can't that adjust/change without having to get rid of Ned?
Last Edited By: tristarscoop April 16, 2008 2:30 PM.
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TooLiveBrew |
#59 | |||
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Posts: 6643 April 15, 2008 9:37 PM BF.net Jedi
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you'd think so, but it hasn't changed in 5+ seasons
I can't believe he's gone... -- Luke Skywalker, aboard the Millennium Falcon, clearly
meaning to refer to Brett Favre
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jakesdaddio |
Is Pressure/Yost stiffling this team? | #60 | ||
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Posts: 425 April 16, 2008 11:36 AM |
I am concerned about the offense, and how the young guys seem to be regressing. All the talk about winning the division, and Yost being Yost...do you think the
kids are starting to press already? Its just a theory.
Last Edited By: And That April 16, 2008 12:30 PM.
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