I love the statistical analysis on this site, but it's not the ONLY thing that exists. Like it or not, sometimes athletes just need to have a little bit more than what the numbers might say.
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brewcrew00 |
#61 | |||
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I love coming to the site, and hopefully contribute in some capacity, but to think sports are are all about critical analysis is just simply nuts. Yes, I
posted something about "gut check" time, because it's there, like it or not. It's not something learned on BBTN, it's something learned
through years of playing and being around sports. Some of the greatest moments may have had a .005 percent chance of happening, but that's what makes the
game. Take the US swimming relay this Olympics against the French. You can't tell me those four guys manned up, had a gut check, or did whatever slang term
you can use to describe flat out getting it done, no matter what the circumstances.
I love the statistical analysis on this site, but it's not the ONLY thing that exists. Like it or not, sometimes athletes just need to have a little bit more than what the numbers might say. Welcome to the Hotel Hell. Check in time now. Check out time is never.
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lukevan |
#62 | |||
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But every game is important. The players are checking their guts every game. Sheets gets four games off to wait until it's his turn to pitch. You don't
think he puts max effort into every start, every inning, every pitch?
[Only those who accept
Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ] |
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Backupcatchers |
#63 | |||
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Sheets might not be a Cy Young winner like Sabathia, but he would be the best pitcher on 2/3 of the teams in MLB.
The other 1/3 are still in the playoff hunt. |
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brewcrew00 |
#64 | |||
lukevan wrote: You're missing the point, yes I'd like to think they give max effort all the time on every pitch, but it's not about effort, or trying hard. There's no way to explain it, but there is just something that is a little bit more. I don't care if some here think I'm crazy, some guys just have a little bit more. Welcome to the Hotel Hell. Check in time now. Check out time is never.
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Fear The Chorizo |
#65 | |||
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I appreciate those on the board who spend far too much of their free time breaking down statistics, probabilities, and critically overananlyze everything under
the baseball-related sun - the data that are compiled and presented often do a great job of summarizing what has happened.
In the reality of baseball, all of that analysis is about as useful as a knowledgeable baseball fan's gut when it comes to predicting outcomes of specific events within the game. Here is where I have a big disconnect with statheads - I feel that there's a "chicken or the egg" dilemma with statistical analysis. What I mean by that is there's always going to be a stat that points to why something happened - and when there isn't it gets grouped into the 'sample size' or 'statistical outlier' category. While that's valid statistically, it doesn't explain why such an outcome occurred - that's where I think some of the condescension and smugness occurs when the statistically inclined butt heads with others who are looking to quantify something that doesn't fit well on paper (health, momentum, heart, guts, clutch, winner, etc). The fact is the events that are statistical outliers in baseball are among the best (and worst, depending on what end you're on) moments in the sport. Statistical analysis is completely vital in personnel evaluation, building a major league roster, and putting players in positions to succeed - understanding the nature of a relatively simple game that is easily the most unpredictable in all of sports on a game-by-game basis is hopefully something everyone can agree with.
"This guy threw at his own son during a father son game..."
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lukevan |
#66 | |||
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But the "little bit more" shows up in stats, no? Or are you referring to clutchiness? There are studies that some have produced that show basically
no correlation from year to year in categories like BA w/RISP etc.
I've played tons of sports in my time so I know that there are pressure situations and maybe some are less equipped to handle those situations but I think players that make it to the major leagues have this quality or else they wouldn't be there.
[Only those who accept
Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ] |
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Ennder |
#67 | |||
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Baseball is an extremely random game, Sheets has pitched great as shown by all of his stats except ERA. If you are a slave to ERA or W then yeah I guess he is
pitching poorly. If you dig deeper in any way then he has pitched just like he did earlier in the year.
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brewcrew00 |
#68 | |||
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Not clutchiness, and simply because someone is playing professionally doesn't mean they're equipped to handle pressure situations. After some make that
initial jump, it can easily be lost. Look at Geoff Jenkins, that guy rarely hit any home runs that mattered. Some guys have it, some don't. Sheets seems to
not as of late.
Welcome to the Hotel Hell. Check in time now. Check out time is never.
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Ennder |
#69 | |||
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Jenkin's OPS in high leverage situations in his career is .833. His overall OPS in his career is .834.
My point is it is mostly in your head. People make up their minds on a player, they remember a big moment or a big choke and they attach that memory to the player for the rest of his career. At least 9 times out of 10 over a large sample things just even out and players aren't clutch or unclutch. Players who cannot pass a 'gut check' are generally players who do not make the major leagues because all of these guys have been high leverage situations many times and if they consistently failed in them they wouldn't be moving up to the next level. |
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StatPipes |
#70 | |||
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As an outside observer I have to ask then...If you don't want to bring back Sheets next year because you don't think he is a big game pitcher, then who
are you going to bring in? Sabathia isn't coming back, so who are you going to spend the money on?
I hear Lowe, Garland, etc, but are they better "big game" pitchers? I am just curious what the rationale is. Again, I am an Astros fan, so I just curious. Personally, even if there truly wasn't a "big game" pitcher, someone still has to get you to the big game. You know, Brandon Backe has pitched phenomenal in the playoffs, but would you take him over a Sheets, Garland, Lowe? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Someone still has to get you to the big game, if you know what I mean. I think the main concern for the Brewers would be the inconsistency offensively. Last nights game would have been a lot different if ya'll wouldn't have been horrendous on the base paths. Hardy in the first getting thrown out with no outs trying to go to third, and Cameron trying to score with one out and being out by 20 ft. Maybe if Sheets had more than 2 runs every game it would be a different outcome. I don't mean this as bashing the Brewers, I like ya'll a heckuva lot more than the Cubs and Cards. Just some constructive criticism. |
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Postseason2006 |
#71 | |||
TooLiveBrew wrote:You have stats to back this up? Considering the source, #1 fan in the Rickie Weeks and Ben Sheets apologist club, you might want to check that. Oh and you think Ben Sheets poor bunting skills had nothing to do with OFFENSE last night, call me. |
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brewjihad |
#72 | |||
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Check out Sabathia's first four games this
year. His ERA in those four was 13.50, and he gave up 5, 4, 9, and 9 (!) earned runs and averaged about 4 innings pitched. How unclutch of him to push the
Indians out of the playoff race!
Free Russell Branyan
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lukevan |
#73 | |||
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You have stats to back this up? Considering the source, #1 fan in the Rickie Weeks and Ben Sheets apologist club, you might want to check that. Oh and you
think Ben Sheets poor bunting skills had nothing to do with OFFENSE last night, call me.
It had something to do with the offense, but you know it's very very little.
[Only those who accept
Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ] |
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bklynbrewcrew |
#74 | |||
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The Ben Sheets bashers really have no leg to stand on in their argument. As for the argument that Sheets is not a "big game" pitcher I present the
2000 Olympic final where one Ben Sheets shut out Cuba for the gold medal. If pitching for the gold medal for your country isnt a big game I dont know what is.
Last Edited By: bklynbrewcrew August 20, 2008 9:48 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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endaround |
#75 | |||
StatPipes wrote:I really have no clue who the dump Sheets crowd think theu can get that won't cost 2/3 as much at least and provide half the output. As to the offense, it doesn't help that Braun was being replaced by Kapler, who is still the 750 OPS guy he always has been and Counsell is again at 3B. |
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StatPipes |
#76 | |||
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True, Braun is a lot scarier than Kapler, but Braun wasn't running the bases either. That first inning with Hardy's double, there would have been a
runner at second and no outs, instead of the bases empty. The Cameron play I have no idea what was going on. Moehler was struggling last night, but the Brewers
bailed him out a few times.
But to stay on topic, Sabathia is pretty much out of the question for next year, and if Sheets isn't back, what do the Brewers do? Parra, Gallardo back from Tommy John, Suppan? The Brewers are going to have to spend money to stay close to the top, so saying Sheets isn't that guy I just don't understand. Again, I would be glad to have him here in Houston. |
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lukevan |
#77 | |||
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Gallardo tore his ACL, no Tommy John surgery. But to your point, I'm not sure what they do if Sheets and Sabathia leave. They'll probably try to trade
someone like Hardy for a #2 pitcher. With Gallardo and Parra, that's not half bad, but not near as good as this year. The Brewers offense will need to
improve OBP next season somehow.
[Only those who accept
Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ] |
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StatPipes |
#78 | |||
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Hardy isn't going to get you a #2, not alone anyway. Your right, ACL, slightly better situation than Tommy John...
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lukevan |
#79 | |||
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Hardy would be the centerpiece of the deal anyway and it would depend on the length and dollars of contract for said #2 pitcher.
[Only those who accept
Will find that acceptance in return - Dredg ] |
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StatPipes |
#80 | |||
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And i guess it depends on who is considered a #2...Either way, he just better be a "big game" pitcher, haha
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